How Did We Not See This Coming?

[Goddess Monica]

A few years ago I started noticing more Humvees and Escalades on the road. I wondered how people could afford them?

A watched shows like "Trading Spaces" and "Flip this House" and saw modest homes transformed into tiny McMansions. I wondered who lives like that?

I saw friends spend thousands to remodel bathrooms, transforming them into mini day spas, complete with Roman tubs and granite flooring. I wondered how they were going to pay for it?

I saw people taking out mortgages for homes worth a quarter of a million dollars after living in 2 bedroom apartments. I wondered who their banker was?

I told my husband we were living in a false economy. I said it wasn't real because all this excessive spending and living was done on credit.

We bought a house within our means. We continued to drive our minivan. We had some credit cards with money owed. We were completely average.

Fast forward 4 years later and the credit card payments that were once manageable are ridiculous, thanks to high interest rates. It takes twice as much to fill our gas tank. Groceries we normally buy seem like a luxury.

What do we get? Letters from credit card companies and the like telling us to pay up! This will go on your credit report, and you'll be screwed!

What happened to our lenders, insurance companies and mortgage companies who drove up the interest rates and lent irresponsibly?

Bail out. The same agencies that wanted NO government regulation or involvement on how their business was run now have their hands out.

Keep going to your second jobs, folks! Wall Street needs that money!

[Kelly Fisher]

Reminds me of the illegal aliens in my neck of the woods who don't want to apply for citizenship because then they'll have to pay federal taxes getting all hot and bothered because the fed wouldn't give them social security benefits when they applied for them. Like, duh, you don't pay into the system, why should you be allowed to benefit from it?

[Cindy]

just wanted to elaborate..the number they apply for is an ITIN. Here is the link to that.

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96287,00.html#what

Now, think about that. These people use these numbers to work, or use a fake social, and as I said above...pay into federal (which they can control with how many dependents they put down on their W4 btw..so I'm sure ALOT doesn't go to federal). However, you cannot change social security and medicare taxes. 6.2% of your earnings goto social security, and 1.45% goes to medicare..regardless of HOW many dependents you put on your W4. So, these people, who rarely file taxes, STILL give to our retirement...One retirement that they will NEVER see daylight of.
Imagine getting rid of the millions that pay into our retirement fund? Even though there are SOME who DO file their taxes, and get some money back, imagine the hundreds of thousand's who are too afraid to file because they don't want to mess with the system? They may be entitled to a refund, but never claim it. What does our government do with THAT money huh?

[Cindy]

I have to ommit "they use these numbers to work"..is meant to say, "they use these number's to file taxes". If they choose to. Now, how about those refunds? ANYBODY who is entitled for a refund can claim a refund as long as they are a citizen, or have filed for an ITIN. NOBODY can get a refund after 3 year's. How do you like THEM apples? You can owe the IRS..and despite the 7 or 10 year rule, there is NO time limit on WHEN they can come after you for OWING. However, if the IRS owe's YOU....ya damn well better get your monies within 3 year's...or ya lose it! How many reading this knew that one? So, where in the HELL does the money go?? Why can't we take the 'unclaimed monies' and redirect it to each state after the 3 year period for medical purposes? Why are hospital's closing in each state? The government holds the refund money for 3 years, collecting interest. They should be allowed to hold the interested and fund it toward the government, and the rest of the monies should go BACK to the state where the individual worked. PERIOD!

[Cindy]

We filed bancruptcy, and lost our house because of the same situation with credit cards.
Kelly, I am a tax accountant (during the season only). I have filed MANY tax returns for illegal aliens..believe it or not. They use a fake social security number to work, then come into my office and file their taxes using a TIN (Tax payer Identification Number). Yep, our government gives them a number to pay taxes with. So, that just goes to prove the government is EXTREMELY aware of who is illegal, and who isn't. That said, there are MANY times when these individuals do not get money back, but owe. However, most of the time, they get money back. Guess who they get to claim as dependents? Their parents in Mexico..because they pass the 'dependency' test. Even though their parent's do not live with them, their paren't qualify as a dependent because the taxpayer (illegal alien) provides over 50% of their support by sending monies to mexico..to their parent. Which, gives a better economy to Mexico because their parent's spend American money THERE instead of HERE right? Also, they get money back. They do NOT qualify for child tax credit's or Earned Income credit's, because they are not citizen's. (you must pass the citizenship test in order to qualify for those credits). That is the only damn good thing about it. (that they don't qualify for extra credit's). On the flip side..their immediate family lives HERE. So, they work the job's for shit pay that alot of American's refuse to work, they pay into our economy (including our social security and medicare), get a small amount of money back (sometimes) and do NOT qualify to get retirement benefits. It is a very sticky situation. Think about the millions of illegals working in the US. You say they arent paying their taxes? To hell they aren't! They are paying into our medicare, social security, and most are afraid to even file because they havent applied for a TIN. So, there you have it. YOU decide what helps our economy MORE. Let them stay, and enrich it, or force them to leave and watch it fall even further down the shithole drain.

[Kelly Fisher]

Obviously I was misinformed. Actually, it's more likely that I'm just underinformed. I get most of my news secondhand.

That being said, I still feel that illegal immigrants either need to get legal or get out. I generally don't disparage whole demographic groups, but if you wanna come to America, damn well do it legally. And know at least a little of the language; it's not asking too much.

[Cindy]

I definately agree about the language thing. I live on the west coast, and at one time I lived 60 miles from the mexican border (actually most of my life..as I grew up in Tucson, AZ).
It is easier to get a job if you are bilingual, which is bullshit. Everyone should have the same opportunity. Also, at one time, many moons ago, the NFL refused to come to Phoenix if we passed the 'English only' bill. Well, we passed it, NFL said FU. So, they took it back, they had a 'revote' LMAO! PAHHLEEZE! Revote my ass! So, the law didn't go into effect, just so we could host a damn NFL game in our state. What a bunch of BS.

[Kelly Fisher]

Isn't it refreshing to know that being able to charge exorbitant amount of money for a football game matters more to our people than having an official language in our homeland?

[Shelagh]

It is the same up here in Canada Sekkc. In my last job and likely my next, I was/am a legal assistant and worked in Immigration for a lawyer.
Although it goes in trends depending on world events as to what country you are being flooded by, most recently it too was Mexico.

II believe we have it worse then you though. My impression of them in the US is that most of them DO want to work and remain living there, am I correct?

Here, it isn’t the case. Most of them know ahead of time that they are going to lose on appeal but decide to have a damn good paid for vacation by the Canadian government first LOL


/sighs, I can’t tell you how many I met that stupidly told me that they were here under false pretenses. For example, it seemed that 90% of the Mexican refugees were claiming to be gay, in love with someone related to the Mexican police who were threatening to kill them so they had to flee to Canada. Of course I would always laugh for right after I would be told this story, I would see the same person flirting with the young 19 year old receptionist downstairs. Once they told me they were lying, unfortunately I would have to tell the lawyer and that could be the end of their case.
In any event, many of them were coming up here because they would have to pay to study English if they came as visitors but as a refugee they were paid to study English so that when they went home they would have a better chance of getting a better paying job than before.
Not to mention that in Canada, from the moment they land on our soil they are entitled to welfare benefits, schooling, free health and dental care, free housing, etc.

Although they were scamming the government here much more than I suspect they are in the States, even then, although most people felt that they should be sent home, they too do contribute to the underground economy which filters up to the rest of us.

Now, correct me if I am wrong but in the States, they aren’t entitled to the same free benefits as they are here, right?
Either way, they have to shop for groceries, gas for their car, clothing, supplies and so on and so forth, all contributing to our economy.
In our case, unlike yours, that is if I am correct that they are collecting welfare as they were all doing here, even while working, then the gains aren’t as high for we lose to much on the payouts to them, but even then, I gather we make it back and more..........so in your case you can only win!!! ;-)

[Cindy]

Shelagh, I don't know if they can collect welfare. I do know that there is a sign in every hospital that says "they do not deny anyone service based upon their inability to pay, race, creed," etc. I can't recite it. Regardless, they are NOT denied health care as long as they use the Emergency room for their regular doctor visits. pfft. I don't see HOW they could collect welfare, but again, I'm not too certain. I think MOST of the women stay home (especially those with no fake SS number) and the men primarily work.
Wow, I didnt know that Canada offered so much? WTH am I doing in the States? LMAO!

[Kelly Fisher]

I'm tempted to agree: Why would I stay in the States when Canada appears to be much more enlightened?? ..... Must be the weather. hehe

[Cindy]

Let's go Kelly! LMAO!!!! Hell, if the economy get's too bad..we can all go live with Shelagh HAHAHAHA! I need to get Shelaghs address hehehe.

[Kelly Fisher]

As for not seeing it coming: People see what they want to see. It's always been that way.

I wish that bailout hadn't been passed, but I've come to realize that there just aren't enough long-sighted people in positions of government. So shortsighted fools go around approving short term fixes that don't actually help in the long run, while the people who can see things in the long term have to figure out how to clean up the mess later on.